Solely In Black and White: BadForShidduchim Points: The Male Version

Monday, April 19, 2010

BadForShidduchim Points: The Male Version

Bad4, during her blogging career has created the infamous club, eerily named “The Bad for Shidduchim Club.” Being a male reader of her blog, and thus prohibited from attending these meeting, I always wondered what actually goes on during these little get-togethers.  Personally, I think it’s a secret collaborative ploy for world domination- one scoop at a time- but that is a theory that can be debated later.

More importantly, this club and its ingenious point system got me thinking. If girls have a metric to measure how badly their actions are viewed in the realm of shidduchim, why don’t boys have one as well? Besides, if a girl were to tell me she had acquired 1,000 Bad4 points, how exactly would I be able to relate to that?   The only plausible solution was to create a Bad for Shidduchim Point system for the guys.

I should note though, unlike Bad4, I have no intention of starting a club, or for that matter the male chapter of her brainchild. I currently have enough (or maybe I should say a rapidly dwindling number of) single friends who I can chill-out with and accomplish the same goals, namely a source of comradery and a venue for sharing good shidduch stories, albeit without the world denomination, at least for now… ;)

As a note of the caution, this list was hastily created and is probably missing a bunch of items. Feel free to make recommendations for additions, subtractions, multiplications, and edits to the list. Also, some items may in fact be against halacha. If you are unsure about the status of a particular item you can either ask a local orthodox rabbi or your next date, you know, just for the fun of it. If you can’t find anything on the list that is against halacha, give yourself 200 points. Enjoy.

Special thanks to Bad4 for her help with this post.  

The complete list after the "Jump"

Life in Shul
20- Talking during davening (per ten seconds)
30- Texting/ emailing/ tweeting during davening or seder (per message)
40- Talking on the phone during davening or seder while in a shul or bais medrash
50- Walking out of a shtiebel holding your tefilian at 12:00 P.M. or latter while on vacation 
70- Walking out of a shtiebel holding your tefilian at 12:00 P.M. or latter on a consistent basis.
80- Shushing someone who interrupts you because you’re in middle of a phone call in a shul or bais medrash
100- Utilizing the function LIFO (last in first out) in a shul or bais medrash for non-accounting purposes

Life Around Town
10– Hitchhiking around town
10- Intentionally wearing ugly brown slip-ons
20– Wearing crocs or tan hiking boots for a day (double if the crocs aren't black) 
30– Sending your mother shopping with one of those old-lady shopping carts
30- Using an old lady shopping cart yourself
30- “Holding” a woman’s purse in public (no, there is no such thing as a man-purse!)
30- Wearing white socks with black pants and dress shoes
30- Wearing a shirt with a stain smaller than an inch in diameter will traversing through a public domain (double if the shirt is white and the stain is pink, yellow, or red)
30– Rollerblading down a major avenue
40– Jogging, in broad daylight, through a Jewish neighborhood
50- Wearing shorts in public
50- Wearing a Doctor Seuss Tie on Shabbos
50- Smoking on Purim
60– Getting your picture in the newspaper with someone in chariem
70– Wearing jeans in public
70– Specifically offering to “help” when spending Shabbos in a house that has 4 teenage girls jostling for room in the kitchen
70– Meeting your female cousin on a busy avenue and conversing on the street corner for 5 minutes. An additional 10 points for every additional two minutes you chat. Double if you smile. Tripe if you laugh
70– Telling people that you’re “going for” something unusual, like philosophy, astrophysics, or one of the therapies. Double points if it’s not at Touro
80- Wearing a shirt that has more than 3 stains or one stain bigger than 3 inches in diameter in public
80– Using hair jell consistently
90– Smoking in public
90- Drinking from a can or bottle in a brown paper bag while in public
100- Wearing Pajamas in public
100- Owning a gun
150- Attending a secular college full time
150- Wearing a skirt in public (even if you call it kilt or a utilikilt, except for Purim)

Life on the Internet  
10- Commenting on a blog (per comment)
20- Commenting on a blog written by a girl or woman (per comment)
50- Posting on a blog (per post)
50- Having an easily findable Facebook page
90- Having a Facebook page with a slew of random girl “friends”
120- Not being digitally shomer (i.e. Facebook poking :p )
200– Publishing a secular novel or blog under your real name

Life of the Party
30– Loudly asking for some hard liquor at a bar while attending a bar mitzvah
50– Attending a vort or wedding without a tie
60- Loudly asking for some hard liquor at the bar while attending a wedding
-20- Loudly asking a shadchan if they could use some hard liquor from the bar at a wedding
70– Attending a wedding without a suit
80- Getting incoherently high at a wedding
100- Getting drunk at a friend’s L’Chaim


  1. Hilarious list, SiBW!
    A lot of these are actually real deal-breakers, unlike Bad4's list...which was mostly neutal yet different stuff that frum people can interpret as negative or positive.

    "20– Wearing crocs or tan hiking boots for a day"
    I like crocs on guys.

    Excuse the post if it's breakfast consisted of clementines and ice cream.

  2. Can I skip items or invent items if the custom is the opposite in my community?

    Also the life on the internet section has stuff "per comment" and "per post"

    Do you mean in a day, or in a week, or what?

    Nice list. lol.

  3. @Sefardi Gal:
    Thanks. Glad you enjoyed. You do know some of those items were taken from Bad4’s list, such as “appear to smoke a cigarette on a street corner/drink from a can in a paper bag”, which I imagine would also be a deal breaker.

    Crocs were a tough decision, I wasn’t sure if I should add it or not. What if they were hot pink ones? How about if a boy wore them on a date? ;) Should either of those net some points?

    Seriously? What’s up with your breakfast? :p

    @Bored Jewish Guy:
    I think sweatpants would be okay, at least for the guys, but I don’t really know. The difference between shorts and jeans can be explained by their purpose. People can rationalize wearing shorts because they’re comfortable or because of the weather. Not so much so by jeans; from what I hear they are not exactly comfortable, but they do have a cool look. Also to quote Bad4 “Wearing jeans. That's very bad.”

    @Feivel ben Mishael:
    Sure. The list, and I assume Bad4’s as well, was made within the context of our respective communities.

    No, I meant literally “per.” For example, I would have netted 50 points for this post and another 10 for this comment. Fine. For the sake of both you and Bored Jewish Guy we can institute a cap of no more than 100 points per day in Internet related points accrual.

    Thanks. Glad you enjoyed.

  4. I think crocs should only count if they aren't the black colored variety - anything else is really out there on a guy. I used to be VERY anti crocs until I had to wear them for several weeks after a small operational procedure on my foot which made me wear bandages that prevented wearing normal shoes. Now I kind of like them - they're especially good for indoors, casual wear - but not so much in public.

  5. “appear to smoke a cigarette on a street corner/drink from a can in a paper bag”, which I imagine would also be a deal breaker.

    Okay fine. That one would probably be a deal breaker for many. :P

    "What if they were hot pink ones? How about if a boy wore them on a date? Should either of those net some points?"
    I haven't blogged about this topic (yet) but I despise the idea of men in pink. I've yet to see it look attractive on any man. Sure, pink shirts or ties can look LESS repulsive on certain men, but they "look" is still blech.
    /end rant

    so yes, hot pink crocs would be nasty. I wouldn't care if a guy showed up with black crocs on a casual date. On a formal date with a suit? I'd be concerned that he might live in his owned warped sense of reality. :P

    "Seriously? What’s up with your breakfast?"

    IDK :(
    and breakfast is my most important and favorite meal!!!

  6. This was a really amusing list! Though most of the 'Life in Shul' penalty points are warranted, sorry lol

  7. @Shades of Grey:
    I guess you’re right; colored ones should earn point while black ones should not. I’ll fix that above. I know what you mean, they really are surprising comfortable and great for casual wear.

    @ Sefardi Gal:
    I agree with your rant about pink, although not to the point where I would call it “repulsive,” but overall I think that is true.

    Really? I have never heard of anyone going on date in crocs, even for a casual date. If your date wore crocs, would you wear a pair too?

    As for breakfast, at least tomorrow is another day… so I guess better luck tomorrow. :)

    Thanks. I know, sadly it’s very warranted in many places. There was a debate as to whether that section should be included in list since technically it has nothing to do with shidduchim. As you can see, it made the final list. ;)

  8. SiBW -
    repulsive on the attraction scale from my (a female's) perspective.
    I've also never heard of a date in crocs, but let's say you've gone out with someone at least 10 times, and y'all have a casual/chilled-out date. Crocs probably wouldn't be so bad.
    If my date wore crocs, I wouldn't:
    1) I don't own the typical crocs. I own a pair of croc flats (, but I'm not a fan. I like my regular flats.

    I like the crocs/naot look on guys, though. It's chiller-style. :)

  9. Oh, woops:
    # 2 on the list was...
    2) I don't like how they look on me. They tend to look very bulky and not feminine on females.

  10. BJG - sounds like she was just flirting. :P
    Don't listen to her! It should be illegal for men to wear pink.

    I don't have an issue with crocs b/c the pathetic part is what makes them appealing. It's like "hey, I'm a chiller."
    But crocs 24/7 = can be an issue.
    I'm a fan of loafers. (

    Oh, and about the jeans/shorts thing:
    jeans show less leg, so I'd say shorts should receive more Bad4 points.

  11. These


  12. Okay so can I just say ixnay to the sweatpants. Sweatpants are for sleeping, lounging around the house, working out in or taking a midnight supermarket dash. If I can't wear denim, there is NO way the guy can wear sweatpants. I went out with the jeans and t-shirt type and although I didn't let his clothing get in the way of getting to know him, I wasn't so into the look. The way one dresses does say something about the way they carry themselves. That's reality.

    Pink can look good on a guy if he has the confidence and personality to pull it off. My favorite color on a guy is blue. I think it looks good no matter what his skin tone/hair color/eye color is. Loafers are also nice.

    There is something undeniably attractive about a well dressed man (well, at least for me). I'm not saying he can never dress casually, but when out on a date, dress to impress. I'm also a big fan of khakis with a polo. Just saying :)

  13. How many points do I get for taking a girl for a jog in the park on a first date?

  14. Hey! Great post sibw felt the need to intervene after reading about the pink issue. I'm also in shidduchim but divorced. I absolutely LOVE pink on guys. I have to agree with coral though that the guy has to know how to pull it off, I've heard from guys that they feel uncomfortable wearing such a girlie color, but I believe that it takes a REAL manly man that is actually comfortable with his maleness to wear it with confidence. One date wore ping once and I thought to myself, wow, this guy is a MAN he's not afraid to wear this color ;) so please don't dissuade the guys from wearing pink, u. Never know if my bashert will chance upon this post and get discouraged lol

  15. Hilarious! Thanks for the great read.
    Now, how to find some guys who break a few of these for the girls who ask me for someone a bit broader minded...Know any?

  16. BJG: One time before I went on a date, I showed two friends of mine (one guy and one girl) my outfit, which included denim, and they both said ditch the denim. I wear denim, but they were right, it's a little too casual for a 1st/2nd/3rd date. At least in NY.

    Blue is the best color a guy can wear, hands down. I think ppl make way too big a deal about pink. Either wear it or don't. If you can pull it off, great, if not, who cares. There are plenty of other colors to choose from. I don't think it makes him any more of a man. Blue however, is a great color to invest in. It's very hard to go wrong with blue. Of course, you need the shades tat suit you best, but overall, it's the best color to go with.

  17. 1500 and that doesn't even include commenting on blogs, commenting on female blogs, and posting on a blog for me

    I think your list gives out points too liberally.

    Funny list though, although many of these things do not lose you points in people's minds like the points in her list does.

  18. @coralcap:
    What’s your opinion about guy’s who roam around town in the middle of the night in sweatpants? Is that limited to just supermarket dashes or any activity?

    That’s a good question. If she is cool with it, then why not?

    Thanks. Please use a name next time.

    You’re welcome. That would depend on which item(s) you’re referring to. ;)

    @Harry-er than Them All:
    I know, you’re right; the list does hand out points a little too generously? Must be a sign of the times, you know… impending inflation. :| Bad for Shidduchim points just aren’t worth what they used to be…. :)

  19. seriously. a rough calculation of 1500 + over 120 posts by me (x50) + commenting on a blog by a woman, a year and a half of blogging x #female bloggers x # times i've commented= well over 2000 points + commenting on blog post (prob close to 1000 points there too) = i'm well over 10,000 points.

    except that aside for having a different career path, having gone to vorts/weddings without a suit, a blog, and FB, none of those would lose me points with any shadchan/family member

  20. Wow. I easily broke 5,000, but I don't really keep track of my blog comments and no longer do blog posts, although you left off forums. And why is owning a gun bad for shidduchim? I would think that physical proof of a clean criminal history would be a good thing. Sure beats running me through the NCIC every time, right?

  21. @Harry-er than them all:
    Um.. Seriously??? I didn’t meant it that seriously. Okay, but If you’d like I can introduce you to some shadchunim who would disagree.

    @Bored Jewish Guy:
    Why shouldn’t doing things that are classified “plain bad to do” earn you bad for shidduchim points? They way I look at it is, not only are you doing something wrong, but you’re doing it in a public manner and thus tarnishing your reputation, shidduchim or otherwise. Just out of curiosity, which ones are you jealous of?

    @Lawyer for Hire:
    Forums are tricky since some are actually useful. Now as for the gun issue, I personally don’t know any male in their 20’s in procession of a firearm. Dunno, I imagine anyone who has a gun in that age demographic doesn’t have it for good reasons. Btw, there are other ways of attaining such objects without scrutiny, such as Motzei Shabbos special, a maybe? ;)

  22. SiBW
    Maybe it's because I don't live in NY, but where I live, lots and lots of people (legally) own firearms. On the other hand, just living outside of NY probably adds a couple of thousand points to my total, doesn't it?

  23. Don’t get me wrong, I have no problem with the second amendment, but do you own a weapon? I would have added living outside NY to the list, but with risk of starting a revolt I decided to err on the side of caution. ;)

  24. SiBW - I own some intersting odds and ends - I'm very bad for shidduchim in that regard. On the other I've had my carry license since I was 18 w/o incident and my law license for 6 months, so I actually know what I'm doing when I carry.

    Bored Jewish Guy - If you're really worried about sleep-shooting, then you should probably join a sleep study before you purchase a firearm. In the mean time, keep a golf club by the bed just in case. (That BTW is NOT legal advice in any way, shape, or form).

  25. BJG -
    Ah yes, the shooter's lament

  26. yeah i actually recently scored "life of the party" 100 points.... i suppose so? the memory is kinda.......well lets just say im not one of the ones who posses it


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